Actually it is perfectly acceptable to cite a work of fiction in a court of
law.
In many courts people swear on a bible to tell the truth...
Some lies are held to a different standard than others in society.
Never the less lies are protected speach in many democracies and they are
not in all autocratic societies.
Agree that the opposite case of only lies all the time is even worse for
society. There is a balance to be struck.
As for those who have no empathy, the psychopatha, sociopaths, aggressive
narcissists etc.
Having had to deal with such manifestly horrific people frequently (my day
job means I am a magnet for them) we can all agree they are extremely toxic
to us empaths individually and to civilisation.
Have had to, out of necessity, develop several techniques to spot them
early and avoid. (check my medium post "Psychopaths and how to spot them")
The damage, abuse and harm they cause makes them easy to demonise and it's
easy to say lock them up.
More and more clinical evidence shows that there are neurophysiological
differences that are not easily treatable.
In the land of therepists, New York, there is only one therapist who
specializes in treating psychopathy as its so difficult.
There has also been some evolutionary benefit to them that is likely no
longer societally relevant in a modern democracy.
Most psychopaths do not reach middle age. Those that do are often the most
dangerous to civilization.
Some are however able to become acceptable and productive members of
society.
The book "The psychopath inside" is worth reading to illustrate.
Again kindness and imagination are better tools to work with. In the above
work, in the form of well thought through parental guidance at an early
age.
Having actually sued a psychopath I can also say first hand that the law is
largely incapable of dealing with them. Especially those that are not
overtly violent themselves.
We will see how far the law gets with the former psychopath in chief.
Over time though on a deeper level I have developed some compassion, I am
yet to meet a happy psychopath and I doubt that, given there physiology,
it's even possible for them to be truly content.
It's likely a spectrum disorder and again it's likely creative imagination
and kindness that might affect a "cure"
On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 10:04 Katherine Phelps <
muse@glasswings.com.au> wrote:
On 9/4/23 18:36, Bill Liao - SOSV Investment Partner wrote:
Actually lies are generally a protected firm of expression.
Not in a court of law. You are bound to tell the truth in a court of
law. Otherwise, justice becomes difficult at best to mete out.
As Douglas Adams pointed out, an inability to tell lies is likely the
end of civilisation.
A society devoid of truth will collapse. No longer is there any basis
for trust among peoples.
History is repleat with examples of the inability of censorship to
make things better.
Nobody has said anything about censorship.
You are quite right about taking away the oxygen from bad actors. You
are right about kindness. But ask anyone who is part of an oppressed
minority, and they will tell you that kindness is not the same thing as
allowing someone to walk all over you.
You do not put people into jail simply because they have done wrong. You
also put them into jail to protect the public. Jail is certainly of
little use without rehabilitation. The Norwegian system of justice is an
excellent example of how to do it right. Nevertheless, there are people
in the world who have serious mental issues such as sociopathy,
psychopathy, malignant narcissism. Some may be recoverable, some will
always be dangerous. Count yourself lucky if you have never run into
someone like this. But inexperience and ignorance concerning such people
does not make them any less destructive.
Cheers,
Katherine
—
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
—
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<
https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:56:22 +1000
Katherine Phelps <muse [at] glasswings.com.au>
Interesting perspective.
On 9/4/23 19:38, Bill Liao - SOSV Investment Partner wrote:
...Some lies are held to a different standard than others in society.
Never the less lies are protected speach in many democracies and they are not
in all autocratic societies.
No. Lying in a court of law is illegal. You are prosecuted for lying in a court
of law.
It interests me that you defend lying.
Is it protected speech when after a woman leaves a man that he calls her up
regularly at 2am to harass her, he tells lies about her on social media, then
provides her personal information for others to harass her?
Is it protected speech for a large newspaper to start printing an unfounded
smear campaign against a private citizen, because they don't like their views
or the circumstances whereby their situation threatens the paper's political
stance?
In a democratic society we expect adults to behave in a responsible manner, and
to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions. It is not
"kindness" to endanger society by allowing some people to forego the
consequences of destructive behaviour, especially when the victims are then
left to their suffering. In this case who is it really that is experiencing any
"kindness"?
Not all courts are fair. Nevertheless, we need fair courts.
Most jails are appalling. Nevertheless, some people are a danger to themselves
and others. They need to be removed from where they can cause harm. We are back
to pointing to the Norwegian system.
Not all lies are of great significance. Nevertheless, we must respect truth.
Wrongdoing requires consequences. Just because someone is wealthy enough to
avoid consequences for fraud, who then goes on to give money to charities
(think Donald Trump and the like), do not think that exonerates them of guilt.
Is it really okay for a person to harm with one hand without redress, because
they are giving (a pittance) with the other?
The same justice must be meted out to the powerful as to the powerless.
There is no peace, there is no kindness, without justice.
Democracy is about fairness, equality, community, and freedom. But remember
that this is a Venn diagram. Anything less and the question becomes, freedom
for who?
Agree that the opposite case of only lies all the time is even worse for
society. There is a balance to be struck.
As for those who have no empathy, the psychopatha, sociopaths, aggressive
narcissists etc.
Having had to deal with such manifestly horrific people frequently (my day
job means I am a magnet for them) we can all agree they are extremely toxic
to us empaths individually and to civilisation.
Have had to, out of necessity, develop several techniques to spot them early
and avoid. (check my medium post "Psychopaths and how to spot them")
The damage, abuse and harm they cause makes them easy to demonise and it's
easy to say lock them up.
More and more clinical evidence shows that there are neurophysiological
differences that are not easily treatable.
In the land of therepists, New York, there is only one therapist who
specializes in treating psychopathy as its so difficult.
There has also been some evolutionary benefit to them that is likely no
longer societally relevant in a modern democracy.
Most psychopaths do not reach middle age. Those that do are often the most
dangerous to civilization.
Some are however able to become acceptable and productive members of society.
The book "The psychopath inside" is worth reading to illustrate.
Again kindness and imagination are better tools to work with. In the above
work, in the form of well thought through parental guidance at an early age.
Having actually sued a psychopath I can also say first hand that the law is
largely incapable of dealing with them. Especially those that are not overtly
violent themselves.
We will see how far the law gets with the former psychopath in chief.
Over time though on a deeper level I have developed some compassion, I am yet
to meet a happy psychopath and I doubt that, given there physiology, it's
even possible for them to be truly content.
It's likely a spectrum disorder and again it's likely creative imagination
and kindness that might affect a "cure"
On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 10:04 Katherine Phelps <muse@glasswings.com.au> wrote:
On 9/4/23 18:36, Bill Liao - SOSV Investment Partner wrote:
> Actually lies are generally a protected firm of expression.
Not in a court of law. You are bound to tell the truth in a court of
law. Otherwise, justice becomes difficult at best to mete out.
> As Douglas Adams pointed out, an inability to tell lies is
likely the
> end of civilisation.
A society devoid of truth will collapse. No longer is there any basis
for trust among peoples.
> History is repleat with examples of the inability of censorship to
> make things better.
Nobody has said anything about censorship.
You are quite right about taking away the oxygen from bad actors. You
are right about kindness. But ask anyone who is part of an oppressed
minority, and they will tell you that kindness is not the same
thing as
allowing someone to walk all over you.
You do not put people into jail simply because they have done
wrong. You
also put them into jail to protect the public. Jail is certainly of
little use without rehabilitation. The Norwegian system of justice
is an
excellent example of how to do it right. Nevertheless, there are
people
in the world who have serious mental issues such as sociopathy,
psychopathy, malignant narcissism. Some may be recoverable, some will
always be dangerous. Count yourself lucky if you have never run into
someone like this. But inexperience and ignorance concerning such
people
does not make them any less destructive.
Cheers,
Katherine
— Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication
Policy
<https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
Comment via email
Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:10:47 +0100
Bill Liao - SOSV Investment Partner <bill.liao [at] sosv.com>
Inline
On Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 00:56 Katherine Phelps <
muse@glasswings.com.au> wrote:
Interesting perspective.
On 9/4/23 19:38, Bill Liao - SOSV Investment Partner wrote:
...Some lies are held to a different standard than others in society.
Never the less lies are protected speach in many democracies and they are
not in all autocratic societies.
No. Lying in a court of law is illegal.
You are prosecuted for lying in a court of law.
Some lies are some lies are not it not an absolute.
It interests me that you defend lying.
Perhaps I am being unclear and I am by no means defending lying I am saying
it's a part of the human fabric and that lies occur on a spectrum that at
one end is tolerated and even has utility and at the other is risible.
Is it protected speech when after a woman leaves a man that he calls her up
regularly at 2am to harass her, he tells lies about her on social media,
then provides her personal information for others to harass her?
If course not and that kind of disgusting behavior all to often goes on
without any resolution.
Is it protected speech for a large newspaper to start printing an unfounded
smear campaign against a private citizen, because they don't like their
views or the circumstances whereby their situation threatens the paper's
political stance?
That may very well be protected speach in some democracies. In autocracies
with state run media it's not protected speach it's policy.
In a democratic society we expect adults to behave in a responsible
manner, and to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
Agree
It is not "kindness" to endanger society by allowing some people to forego
the consequences of destructive behaviour, especially when the victims are
then left to their suffering. In this case who is it really that is
experiencing any "kindness"?
Again perhaps I am being in unclear. Please do not conflate an absence of
consequences with kindness. Sometimes we must be somewhat cruel to be kind
as they say.
Not all courts are fair. Nevertheless, we need fair courts.
True
Most jails are appalling. Nevertheless, some people are a danger to
themselves and others. They need to be removed from where they can cause
harm.
True
We are back to pointing to the Norwegian system.
Never had an argument with the Norwegian system.
Not all lies are of great significance. Nevertheless, we must respect
truth.
Not once have I said anything about denegratung the truth. That said truth
is often subjective and contextual.
Wrongdoing requires consequences. Just because someone is wealthy enough
to avoid consequences for fraud, who then goes on to give money to
charities (think Donald Trump and the like), do not think that exonerates
them of guilt.
Hopefully you are just reinforcing a point and don't actually think I am a
moron. Only a moron imagines they can buy their way out of guilt.
Is it really okay for a person to harm with one hand without redress,
because they are giving (a pittance) with the other?
Where did that come from? Of course that would not be OK.
The same justice must be meted out to the powerful as to the powerless.
Agreed
There is no peace, there is no kindness, without justice.
Don't fully agree and prefer rule of law to no rule of law and rule of law
being being beneficial is a more fragile construct than most people think.
Democracy is about fairness, equality, community, and freedom. But
remember that this is a Venn diagram. Anything less and the question
becomes, freedom for who?
Thank you for making my point. :)
Agree that the opposite case of only lies all the time is even worse for
society. There is a balance to be struck.
As for those who have no empathy, the psychopatha, sociopaths, aggressive
narcissists etc.
Having had to deal with such manifestly horrific people frequently (my day
job means I am a magnet for them) we can all agree they are extremely toxic
to us empaths individually and to civilisation.
Have had to, out of necessity, develop several techniques to spot them
early and avoid. (check my medium post "Psychopaths and how to spot them")
The damage, abuse and harm they cause makes them easy to demonise and it's
easy to say lock them up.
More and more clinical evidence shows that there are neurophysiological
differences that are not easily treatable.
In the land of therepists, New York, there is only one therapist who
specializes in treating psychopathy as its so difficult.
There has also been some evolutionary benefit to them that is likely no
longer societally relevant in a modern democracy.
Most psychopaths do not reach middle age. Those that do are often the most
dangerous to civilization.
Some are however able to become acceptable and productive members of
society.
The book "The psychopath inside" is worth reading to illustrate.
Again kindness and imagination are better tools to work with. In the above
work, in the form of well thought through parental guidance at an early
age.
Having actually sued a psychopath I can also say first hand that the law
is largely incapable of dealing with them. Especially those that are not
overtly violent themselves.
We will see how far the law gets with the former psychopath in chief.
Over time though on a deeper level I have developed some compassion, I am
yet to meet a happy psychopath and I doubt that, given there physiology,
it's even possible for them to be truly content.
It's likely a spectrum disorder and again it's likely creative imagination
and kindness that might affect a "cure"
On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 10:04 Katherine Phelps <muse@glasswings.com.au>
wrote:
On 9/4/23 18:36, Bill Liao - SOSV Investment Partner wrote:
Actually lies are generally a protected firm of expression.
Not in a court of law. You are bound to tell the truth in a court of
law. Otherwise, justice becomes difficult at best to mete out.
As Douglas Adams pointed out, an inability to tell lies is likely the
end of civilisation.
A society devoid of truth will collapse. No longer is there any basis
for trust among peoples.
History is repleat with examples of the inability of censorship to
make things better.
Nobody has said anything about censorship.
You are quite right about taking away the oxygen from bad actors. You
are right about kindness. But ask anyone who is part of an oppressed
minority, and they will tell you that kindness is not the same thing as
allowing someone to walk all over you.
You do not put people into jail simply because they have done wrong. You
also put them into jail to protect the public. Jail is certainly of
little use without rehabilitation. The Norwegian system of justice is an
excellent example of how to do it right. Nevertheless, there are people
in the world who have serious mental issues such as sociopathy,
psychopathy, malignant narcissism. Some may be recoverable, some will
always be dangerous. Count yourself lucky if you have never run into
someone like this. But inexperience and ignorance concerning such people
does not make them any less destructive.
Cheers,
Katherine
—
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
—
Note: This email has been sent in line with SOSV's Communication Policy
<
https://sosv.com/communication-policy/>
Comment via email
